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Poster: Skobud Date: Nov 7, 2012 10:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Hell yes Mando, and that is the other side of the coin imo. I think its one of those situations where you have to side with the greater good, or the better of two bad options.

To me it’s not a real choice, because with both you have very negative consequences. Meaning either cutting benefits altogether or trying to control the massive fraud that accompanies them. It makes me as sick as anyone else to know how many people are experts at fucking the system. Prosecute and send their asses to jail - because they are criminals.

In my opinion, when it comes to a civilized society, these programs have to be in place. Period. Its not that they are so efficent and effective, but they do however measure us as a people and a country. You can tell quite a bit about a nation by how they treat their own. I have to believe that we are better as a people, a nation even with these types of programs in place. Being an American makes you part of something, whether you like it or not.

The truth is I have a 3 year old so this subject really strikes a chord with me. People ask my wife and me all kinds of questions about raising him and value(s). I tell people the most important thing I want to impart to him as a father is compassion. It’s OK to care and be connected to other people you do not know. Helping someone who needs it is a good thing because you never know when you might need that very same help.

I refuse to believe that society would be better off without public assistance. That is the epitome of Pandora’s Box if you ask me.

To answer your question directly Mando - No way I deny that fraud is totally out of control when it comes to public assistance. I dont think it can be avoided.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 7, 2012 11:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Which leads me to the point I have been trying to make for the last 4 years - not with you guys here - but in general with what I see as the most significant issue facing this country.

It isn't ring's uterus, it isn't Monte's MMJ, it isn't abortion, it isn't health care, it isn't same sex marriage, it isn't Iran's nuclear program, it isn't global warming/cooling/climate change and it sure as shit isn't anything that was addressed by either party during the campaign, nor will it be anything addressed by the Administration in the next four years.

We havd a fiscal crisis bearing down on us like nothing ever seen before. We are about to hit a fiscal ceiling for the third time in the past year. Our debt is unserviceable, our spending is out of control and our revenue system generates a pittance for the government while allowing for wealth concentration.

If we do not address our spending immediately, address our revenue generation equitably then at some point - I think within the next 10-15 years - our debt is going to collapse the economy. The dollar is going to zero as all fiat currencies have done. We will at the very least lose world reserve currency status.

When that happens ALL of these social safety net programs cease to exist. Immediately. Entirely. Everything "funded" by the federal government breaks. Including the government. With luck, we will suffer through a huge contraction and find a level of semi-sustainable equilibrium at a very local level and neighbor for the most part, will look after their neighbor. It's more likely that the transition will not be such a smooth ride. Will it be Mad Max or Cormac McCarthy's 'Road' or something in between?

Compassion is fine during relatively good times. How quickly do you think compassion will fly out the window when the choice is to feed your 3 year old or feed your neighbor? How quickly will compassion fly out the window when your neighbor decides that you aren't going to feed your 3 year old and decides to come take your food?

I would like to think that Americans will rally around each other and we'll figure out how to manage. But there is a growing portion of our society that is ENTIRELY dependent on the empty promises the government has made to them. That demographic will be the most desperate and most impacted first. I don't share your enthusiasm that they will have the same degree of compassion you do and most of us agree is necessary and appropriate.

No one is talking about this seriously.......and I'm scared shitless.

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Poster: Daddy D Date: Nov 7, 2012 5:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship." - Alexander Tyler

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 7, 2012 5:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- just rely on what Jerry said

Jerry had it pegged in 1967 when he said this in the CBS Hippie Temptation documentary: "What we're thinking about is a peaceful planet. We're not thinking of anything else. We're not thinking about any kind of power. We're not thinking about any of those kinds of struggles. We're not thinking about revolution or war or any of that. That's not what we want. Nobody wants to get hurt. Nobody wants to hurt anybody. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life and think about moving the whole human race ahead a step."


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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 7, 2012 5:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

It's ironic that freedom demands disipline and restraint and the lack of those qualities ends freedom.

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